Has anyone been successful in getting a builder (using a standard Master Build...

Why should the risk of cost increases fall solely on the builder? For things within the builder’s control, I agree that the builder should wear any costs. For things outside of their control, SOMEONE has to pay, why is it the builder? If you do get a contract that covers such things, you’ll simply find that they’ve built-in those potential prices into the contract, so you’re guaranteeing that you’ll pay the higher costs regardless; if the higher costs don’t eventuate, then the builder will have gotten extra profit for free and you’ll have spent more money than you needed to.

In answer to your question is probably not,read the agreement very carefully,several times. You will find it is heavily weighted towards the builder and you probably find you have no rights at all. What value does the masterbuild contract give to you?Very little,the claimable amounts are very small in todays price market,the biggest problem is you have to adhere to the contract dispute procedure,does the Master builder contract mean they are “master builders”that would depend on who they contract to do the work. Run it past a solicitor ,I know what he would say?Don’t sign it! But we do because we want to build a house and our emotion overcomes common sense. Demand is so high for builders you don’t have the choice to dictate terms they seem to work on the take it or leave it scenario. Good luck.

Your right Lanthanide, and the flip side to that is why should it fall solely on the purchaser? My point is they sell the idea of a fixed price contract when in fact there is no such thing. Also if i am paying for the knowledge and experience then why should the risk of increases due to them not knowing what is required to gain building consent or that materials specified increase be born by me? If i order a new car and they dont have it in the colour i want, i can wait for months to get this, the dealer doesnt charge me more if the price of steel goes up during this time.

The price of steel going up won’t affect the price of the car because: 1. The car is (most likely) made by a large manufacturer, who has economies of scale on their side – they’ll have deals with suppliers for x amount of steel at $price, so the market price on any given day should not impact on the prices of cars made over the next quarterly period. 2. Similarly a lot of things go into making cars, and they would have big margins on the order of 30-50% (I’m guessing). Thus even if the price of some components goes up, they can take the loss of profit on the chin, sell it to you at the agreed price and put the prices up for subsequent customers to make up the price difference. 3. There’s a good chance your car already exists somewhere in the world in a warehouse, and you’re waiting x months to get it shipped to NZ, rather than it being made to order. Those items do not apply to local builders. If roofing iron goes up in price, are you expecting the builder to take a hit on their profit? They aren’t major multinational companies, and they don’t have supply contracts sorted for years in advance. Do you expect the builder to charge their next customer a higher price? How is that fair to the next customer? Would you like to be paying extra to cover the builder’s previous job? Now larger companies like Mike Greer Homes DO have economies of scale on their side. And that is how they CAN sell “house and land packages” at specific price points, as others have said in this thread. But generally builders in NZ simply don’t have the capitalisation to do that. “Also if i am paying for the knowledge and experience then why should the risk of increases due to them not knowing what is required to gain building consent” Buyer beware. Just like you shouldn’t buy a plaster-clad house built in 1996 without doing due diligence to check if it’s leaky, you should do due diligence to check if your builder is actually experienced. ” or that materials specified increase be born by me?” It doesn’t matter how much knowledge or experience your builder has, if prices of roofing iron goes up by 40% overnight, what are you supposed to do? So you’re comparing apples (cars) and oranges (houses) and then having a whinge. Not achieving much.

Are you a builder by chance?

No, I’m someone who is currently having a house built by a reputable builder who is standing by the terms of the contract – they have recently discovered a small mistake that was made in constructing the foundation, and they’ve now come up with an alternative engineering design that they are paying for out of their own pockets – because it was their mistake. I’m also someone who has a realistic view of how the world works for 1-off construction projects undertaken by small companies, as opposed to mass-produced commodities such as cars.

Well good on your builder. If only the other 99% of kiwi builders were so good. But the reality (something i dont think you are familiar with) of most building experiences (you just have to read the comments on this site) in NZ is that the builders will take every opportunity to use the clauses in a Master Build contract to their advantage and the quality of work and experience is pretty shocking.

Hi Lanthanide We are looking to build in East Auckland. We like your “reputable” builder, any chance of recommending us to your builder. Thanks

If you think the experiences on this blog represent the experiences for “most” house builds, then this industry would be getting pilloried every day by the media.

My builder does not operate in East Auckland, sorry.

we built with frame homes. They operate east and south auckland. Not a franchise builder, but decent quality and reasonable time for construction.

This is an open forum in a democratic society. It maybe the problem is more widespread than you have experience with or you have a vested interest in making that comment. As long as no litigious statements are made and they are honest and truthfull accounts then people have a right to know if a company is reliable or not. All too often the threat of legal action is used against someone speaking out. We don’t want to slander people,but if its an honest and truthfull account we can’t be guilty of that.

Hi Lanthanide: This blog has become my go to place and as I plan a build with increasing trepidation! your experience seems a ray of hope. Please can you share your builders’ contact? Thanks mate.

Can everyone please keep replies civil?

Around 26% of projects end with a ‘major problem’ between builder and client according to the BRANZ report on builder satisfaction. And the media won’t cover these problems for a number of reasons, mostly because one-off problems don’t make for an issue that affects many people. However, there are enough problems out there that it is a real concern, and while there are very good builders, there are terrible ones, too, and somehow they keep getting work.

> This is an open forum in a democratic society. I’m not sure what the point of that remark is. I’m not proposing communism, or that this forum be made private. > It maybe the problem is more widespread than you have experience with Or, it may be that Martin has read this forum, assumed that “most” (ie, over half) of all builds suffer the types of problems described, and that he is over-reacting as a result. The commercial reality is that when costs increase SOMEONE has to pay. The most equitable way of deciding who pays is that if it is things the builder is in control of, they should pay. If it’s out of the control of the builder, then the customer pays. You can try and write a contract that says otherwise, but all you’ll end up doing is baking-in those extra costs and paying them up-front regardless of whether any extra expense is incurred. Are there gray areas? Yes. Are there too many cases of builds going bad, and builders doing shoddy jobs? Yes. Does this equate to “most” builds in this country? No. Is there a remedy available already? Yes – court. Fundamentally no-one is forcing you to build a new house. You should do due-diligence on the building company. Ask to see their previous houses and talk to the owners. Any builder that refuses that is a red flag and you should move on. If you don’t want to take the potential risk of cost-overruns or having to take someone to court, then it’s simple – don’t build new, buy instead. > or you have a vested interest in making that comment. A vested-interest in dealing with reality as it is, and not making fanciful wishes that the economics that apply to mass-produced cars on an assembly line, would also apply to 1-off construction projects that last months, on sections exposed to the weather, where multitudes of suppliers and contractors need to be organised, that are typically carried out by small companies. > As long as no litigious statements are made and they are honest and truthfull accounts then people have a right to know if a company is reliable or not. I agree. I’m not sure why you’re making that statement, are you trying to suggest that I implied that? Any implication is in your own head, not my words. > All too often the threat of legal action is used against someone speaking out. Not sure what relevance that has to this discussion. > We don’t want to slander people,but if its an honest and truthfull account we can’t be guilty of that. Again, not sure what relevance that has to this discussion.

My builder doesn’t operate in central Auckland.

Its like your builder is fictitious? No wonder they are so good, it doesn’t sound like that actually do any building work.

So you’re accusing me of lying, then. My house build is going quite a bit slower than I would have liked (3 months overdue currently), and communication with the builder hasn’t been as good as it should have been. I never claimed they were god’s gift to builders, I just gave my particular example of a builder who is living by the clauses of the building contract we signed, by paying for the costs incurred with correcting their (or their subcontractor’s) earlier bad work.

I don’t believe i accused you of anything? Your cryptic responses to people when they ask about your builder and the fact you have never actually named this “reputable builder” just made me wonder if they were a figment of your imagination? That’s all. My comments have been related to my experiences building 4 houses over the past 10 years. Overall my experience of building have been negative, cost over runs, delays, poor workmanship, lack of communication and contracts weighted in the favor of the builder not the customer. There have been some good sides. Some sub contractors have been great to work with, focused on delivering the highest quality of work, but these are few and far between.

So I’m correct, it’s not “most” builds.

And overall 85% of people had to call back their builder to fix issues. This report is also only a survey of 700 people when over 30,000 building consents were issues in the survey period. so 26% of people with a ‘major problem’ between builder and client could be almost 8000 people in NZ, granted its not “most: but is a damn site more significant than “a few”.

Martin, why have you put “a few” in quotes, when no one but you has actually said that? Do you know the purpose of quotation?

Great catch thanks Lanthanide I appreciate the grammar coaching. If we are giving constructive feedback you might want to learn to spell truthful (its just one l).

Hey Martin, it seems you’re not very good at following conversations / reading comprehension. 1. I wasn’t giving you grammar coaching, I was pointing out that you’re trying to imply that I said “a few”, when in fact I didn’t say that at all. In other words, you’re setting up a straw man argument. That isn’t grammar coaching, it’s pointing out that you’re bad at constructive argument because you rely on misconstruing other people’s words in order to prove yourself ‘right’. 2. I never myself wrote the word “truthfull”. I was quoting Sam, you can tell by the way I started this section with “>” and that the words I quoted were originally in Sam’s response. I expect this will be deleted by the moderator as being off-topic, but at least you’ll receive this email first. Hopefully you can reflect on my feedback and come better equipped to online discussions in the future.

Thanks again Lanthanide. Im sorry i don’t have the time to engage with you on this further but it’s obvious you are trolling and have a very big ego.