Can anyone suggest a good but reasonably priced lawyer to look through the...

Hi Sanjay, From what you say I assume the builder has already shown you a draft copy of the contract. It would help if you mentioned whether this is one of the ‘standard’ forms, such as Master Builders, Certified Builders, various franchise builders who have their own versions etc, or just one this particular builder has had produced for himself. That might give some indication of just how bad it’s likely to be. I used a reasonably competent solicitor to vet a contract once, but after spending my career looking at civil engineering contracts I still found it easier to look at it myself. My suggestion would be to first download a copy of the NZ Standards Residential Building Contract NZS3902:2004, to see what a reasonable contract should contain, and compare it with what you have been given by the builder. If nothing else it will put you in a better position to ask the lawyer and/or the builder about the differences, and why they prefer one or the other.

Hi Chris Thanks for this. I will look through the NZ Standards contract for sure. The builder gave me a standard master builder contract over a year ago but everything got delayed with the resource consent and then the pandemic, etc., so we will be doing the contract process again now. I will compare before finding a lawyer. Thanks. Sanjay

Hi Sanjay, I had the house we’re now living in built, based on the then MB contract, in 2015/16. Not sure whether it has since been modified. But at that time it definitely required some modifications to make it acceptable to me. So part of the reason we used the builder we did was because he was very open to making the changes I wanted (not all builders are). If you have time I’d be interested to hear what your lawyer says about the MB and NZS forms, because some lawyers who claim a knowledge of building contracts don’t actually have much. Unless the MB form has been modified a lot since 2016 (which I doubt), in my view if he/she thinks it’s fine as it stands they are not giving you good advice. I would hope they suggest some changes, but some I’ve found try to sell you their own form, in the hope the builder will accept it. This whole issue of contracts is a kind of Catch 22. If you have a nice, honest, competent builder, who is not out to rip you off, and who you can discuss and agree things with in a reasonable way, then the contract can become almost irrelevant. But if things start to go wrong (as they so often do on any construction contract), then the only thing you have to fall back on is exactly what it says in the contract. Nothing more. So when you’re writing the contract you can hope for the best, but you must plan for the worst. It appears that house building in NZ can be a bit of a minefield for the inexperienced and the unlucky, so the more competent advisers you can get on your side the better. Good luck.

Hi Sanjay, Sorry to follow up so quickly, but I just re-read my last entry, and something I said was perhaps not entirely true. I said you can only rely on what’s in the contract, and nothing more. I suppose I should have said that there are requirements in the Building Regs for what is required to be in any contract for work over $30K. But if the contract omits some of those requirements then I believe there are things that are ‘deemed to included’. Also you are covered by some aspects of consumer law. So I think you really need to look at the Building Regs and consumer law when you’re drafting the contract, to get the full picture

Hi Chris: I have noted to compare with the NZS3902 form. Good to know about the ‘Deemed to be included’ clause. Thanks. Just now I am about to bung in the building consent application to the Council and expect to look at the builder’s contract in about a month. I will then take up your kind offer and bounce off critical issues on the contract if I may, Chris. Would you have an idea how much the engineering design for two standard 3-bed houses should cost? Welcome any feedback from anyone else too. Many thanks. Sanjay

Building contracts need an addendum attached to them, being a shortened version of the specification. This will encourage dialogue between the Client and Builder. Dialogue between the two will build trust and confidence. The client needs to be walked through and made to understand the Build process. This process also needs to be in a written form. All documents produced by the builder should be signed. Clients need to look at their prospective builder, and ask can this builder produce ways to mitigate problems during the build, if they can’t, don’t proceed.

Just to add that the two 3-bed houses are attached with a standard firewall between the two garages. Any idea of the cost for structural engineering feeding into the architect’s building Consent drawings will help. Thanks. Sanjay

Hi Gary, I agree with all you say in principle (and in an ideal world), but all of this implies you have a builder who is decent, honest, competent, and reasonable to deal with (provided of course you are also reasonable). And as I’ve said before, in that case you hardly need a contract (although that does not mean you shouldn’t have one, because even the best builder can turn awkward if he starts losing money). I’m not sure what you mean by a shortened version of spec. In NZ building contracts it seems the spec can be the most important thing, as it states what exactly you’re getting for your money. So of course the full spec needs to be part of the contract. And of course everything important needs to be signed. I think there are several documents publicly available outlining the basic build process, although anyone planning a build who does not already understand that is inviting trouble in my view. Regarding your last sentence, this sounds great. But on a typical build the potential problems are so many and varied it would be hard to deal with them all. The good, honest builders might try, but I guess would ask exactly what problems you have in mind. The less honest ones would say we never have any problems, or give you BS answers (Q: What will you do if you fall behind programme? A: What’s a programme? LOL. Throw in more resources!) And less experienced clients won’t know the difference.

Hi Sanjay, Happy to comment if it helps. To answer both your questions regarding architects/engineers fees, I guess it would depend a lot on where you live, the type of firm you approach, how ‘qualified’ people are (actual architects, or architectural designers etc), and how ‘architectural’ the design is. I think generally an architect/architectural designer would do the majority of the design, and co-ordinate Consent submissions etc. But get advice/input from a structural engineer on things like beams/lintels/foundations etc, and maybe special bits of framing such as in high wind zones. At the time I built it (about 5 years ago) seemed you would be lucky to get all the above input for much less than about 5% of the build cost, or maybe $40-50K. But then maybe I grossly overpaid, because I’ve seen people on this blog claiming that a friendly designer they know did the whole thing for a great deal less. And of course don’t forget that if you make any variations during the build it may involve more architect/engineer fees, and there may also be engineer fees if he/she needs to do site inspections during construction. As Sarah (presumably from a small building company) has just kindly pointed out, nobody can work for nothing.

Chris C, you are the best voice on this blog. Please don’t go anywhere as everything you say is reasonable, understandable and well written and I learn something new from every single one of your posts even several years later! Thank you, your input does not go unnoticed 🙂 P.s – the reason I’ve been quiet for a while is that I am mid litigation with a dodgy building company but when it’s over (if it’s ever truly over) I will be back with a gusto to share my experiences with anyone who wants to hear it. It’s amazing that court proceedings and a great lawyer (whom I shall be referring to everyone) gives you the most brutal crash course in the building industry. I’m glad I have the knowledge now but sad I had to learn this the hard way. In my next life I shall ask for the gift of hindsight. MJ

Hi MJ, I think you’re being too kind, but coming from someone who has written some extremely useful stuff on this blog himself (I apologise if that should be ‘herself’) I really appreciate it. You’ve made my day. I look forward to hearing about your litigation in due course.