Hi we are based in the Franklin area, and are deciding over Landmark Homes to...

Haven’t heard too much about them but I’d check how long the current owners have held the franchise as lots of franchises going bust recently (eg Compass, Stroud). I recommend checking out some of the local builders and how long they have been in business as a good yardstick to make sure you don’t get caught out with a half finished home.

Hi Neesha, I totally agree with what Chris says. But would add, in case you’re not familiar with how the system works, that in most (all?) cases these franchise companies that appear to be large, nationwide operations, that trade on how many houses they’ve built etc, are in fact just a bunch of small builders, operating as such in their local areas. Often (usually?) the figurehead company will take no legal responsibility for errors or problems with the franchisee. So apart from checking the background and record of the franchisee I suggest you ask them, and Landmark, and get in writing, exactly what action or support you will get from LM if things go wrong, and how they vet their franchisees. Also don’t forget to ask the franchisee for a copy of their building contract before handing over any more money than you can afford to write off to experience, and get it checked out by someone who knows what to look for (not all solicitors do, although few will admit that). If the contract looks unfair to you, and they won’t change it, then walk away. Do not believe them when they say all their other clients accept it, so you’re being picky or unreasonable. No doubt you’ve seen articles which point out that it is now often less expensive to buy a finished house than build, and obviously a lot less hassle. Might be worth considering.

Second what Chris has said. There are quite a few local, Franklin based building companies to consider who aren’t franchises and I’d dare say have been around a lot longer so are definitely worth talking to. Friends of ours went with one based in Patty and their house quality-wise is head and shoulders above what I’ve seen in some I’ve seen on the open home circuit. What swayed them too was not having part of their build cost being a fat fee to head franchise.

Hi Neesha, we had a bad experience with landmark, another franchise, and head office did not help. Good advice in the 3 post responses. Find a good local builder.

Landmark homes Christchurch no good.

Hi Neesha We built with Landmark Canterbury which was one of the worst experiences of our lives. Despite contacting the Franchisor Landmark NZ on several occasions asking for their assistance, we ended up issuing legal proceedings against LMC. After a dispute which had been ongoing for almost 2 years, LMC settled the full amount claimed on the morning of the adjourned hearing.

Did you eventually go with them Neesha??

Hi JE We are also considering our Legal options for Landmark homes Christchurch for the Lack of transparency through the build Plus all the defects big and small that are still pending 4 months later. Just about every aspect of the build was flawed. For example . Changing the plans after council consent and going to different suppliers behind our backs that weren’t what we sign off on etc.

Hi JE, Pleased to hear you finally won a dispute with your builder. But you mention contacting the franchisor regarding a problem with one of their franchisees, and (from what you don’t say) presumably getting very little help. This raises an interesting point, that I’ve commented on before. Most of these large building franchises seem to imply, in their ads etc, that they will somehow be ‘there for you’ if anything goes wrong on your build, or you have any problems with a franchisee. I generally assume, perhaps incorrectly, that in reality their contracts are carefully written to ensure they have no legal liability at all. But of course they could still assume some moral responsibility, or even wish to protect the good name of their franchise. So may try to help out in some way. In particular, recent ads on TV from ‘NZ’s largest home builder’ certainly seem to imply they would do more than just leave you entirely on your own if things go wrong. So I’m writing to see whether anyone has any experience with any franchisor taking any responsibility, or being of any use at all, when things go wrong on one of their franchisees contracts. And if anyone who operates either a franchise, or is a franchisee, would care to comment that would be great. But if none of them do actually comment, I guess we can draw our own conclusions.

Claims up to $30k can be made in the regular Disputes Tribunal (as opposed to the buildings disputes tribunal) The DT doesn’t deal with claims under building warranties so the claim should be made under the Consumer Guarantees Act (and breach of contract.) The cost is up to $180 depending on the value of your claim with virtually no right of appeal and no lawyers, hence no counter claim by the other party can be made for legal fees. If you decide to go this route, ensure you have all your evidence, follow the process and don’t be deterred.

We found the franchisors overall response to be ‘wanting’ We reported Landmark to the Commerce Commissioner who investigate organizations if they get sufficient number of complaints. Complaints can also be made to the LBP under the updated LBP Code of Conduct 25th Oct 22 and worthwhile reading when trying to resolve a dispute. The only upside we see of using a Franchise is they are less likely to put themselves into liquidation during a dispute as a stand alone builder as they would lose their brand name.

Hi Have you tried Fairway Disputes being a free service as part of your Materbuild Guarantee If the relationship with your builder deteriorates, you may find yourself in a contractual dispute. While this can be stressful, you have a legal contract with each other that needs to be fulfilled. We offer a free disputes resolution service through an independent provider called Fair Way. They help resolve issues in areas such as communication, quality, payment, and design. Contact Fair Way: Phone: 0800 77 44 02 Email: build-disputes@fairwayresolution.com Online: contact form

Hi JE, A few comments on what you and Peter Quinn have said. First thanks JE for at least responding. I find it a little frustrating to try to comment on what people ask or say, but very seldom get a useful or substantive response. For example, as far as I know no one has ever made it clear whether a franchisor has ever taken any moral (let alone legal) responsibility for misdeeds by or problems with their franchisees. And if they don’t, then it becomes a bit irrelevant whether they put themselves into liquidation. Why would they do that, if they have no financial penalty, no matter what their franchisees do? For reasons that puzzle me, franchisors often seem to carry on operating for years, despite many complaints about their franchisees in forums like this. Like Peter, I would expect them to ruin their brand by allowing rogue franchisees to operate, but it never seems to happen. Having said that, I’d be happy to be corrected if I’m wrong. Almost by definition any form of ‘mediation’ implies that both parties go into it expecting to give up/concede something. (In my experience most mediators simply hope and expect that both sides will be good guys, and agree to meet in the middle.) So if the builder starts with the idea that he has done nothing wrong, and does not expect to do or pay anything, then mediation must be a waste of time. The only way then is to hope you can force an arbitration, in which an arbitrator skilled in both law and building practice will look at all the facts,, listen to both sides, then dictate a binding decision. But that procedure has a cost, so the amount in dispute has to be enough to make it worthwhile.

The resolution service isn’t legally binding and requires honesty and a genuine commitment in reaching a resolution. If the builders actions so far haven’t alluded to this, it merely draws out an already stressful situation. It would be interesting to hear from anyone that has used this free service as to the outcome.

From my understanding, the Fairways Resolution engages the Masterbuilders Representative from the area to inspect the issues and a report is compiled. The reps in Christchurch are excellent with strong building knowledge. Regardless if it is legally binding or not , it gives a technical base to work from rather than a homeowners perspective who generally are not technically adverse (no disrespect implied). I dont know what the issues are here but do feel it is a good step forward and why The Masterbuilders offer this free service.

Hi Peter, Understood, although again a client knowing exactly what’s wrong, and even being convinced it’s the builder’s fault, doesn’t help too much if the builder doesn’t agree. And of course if he’s the reasonable kind of builder who admits his own faults, then most likely you don’t have a problem anyway. Interesting, and nice to know, that MB are prepared to help in that way. Is it only if the builder involved is a MB? Do they charge, and if so how much? If they do I guess you could also employ a building surveyor. Another topic I’ve never had an answer to. Has anyone ever got any money out of MB?

Hi Thats is why it is important to engage an independant expert to assess and report. Was a Masterbuild Guarantee part of your package? Quinn Homes is a member of The Masterbuilders but my builder is not. If this is the same situation whereby the Franchise that you signed up with to construct your home is a Masterbuilder yet the actual builder that performed the works is not, there is no issues you engaging Fair Way resolutions. There is no cost for this service.

Hi Chris C With the MB contract being heavily weighted in the builders favour and the high cost of seeking legal redress, it’s certainly prohibitive for most owners to seek redress and appears to embolden builders to behave the way they do. The new LBP Code of Conduct 2022 which became effective in Oct 2023 appears to attempt to address that issue and is well worth a read for anyone who is having difficulty with their builders conduct. The DT at a max cost of $180 is also a low cost method of recovering up to $30k from your builder under the Consumer Guarantees Act and is a simple process whereby you detail the claim, provide quotes/invoices along with any evidence. I mention this again because so many homeowners are under the illusion they must claim under the Buildings DT which is expensive. I think it would be fair to say, that whilst homeowners may not be “technically adverse” you don’t have to be a meteorologist to understand that it’s raining. Whilst all problems with the build should be notified to MB in accordance with the guarantee conditions, it’s questionable how independent a free service provided and paid for by MB using their own representatives is. Depending on the issues at stake, for the homeowners peace of mind, better for the homeowners to obtain an Independent report.

Hi Peter, A bit puzzling. Are you a builder (Quinn Homes?) or a client? I’m surprised a franchisor can be a MB, but their franchisee not be a MB. That would be quite misleading for clients. Our house was finished 7 years ago, but the builder (not a member of a franchise) was a MB. So we used a modified form of the then current MB contract. See my reply to JE. Still no answer on whether anyone has ever got any money out of MB.

Hi JE, See my reply to Peter Quinn. I’m a Civil Engineer, so I’ve used many types of construction/building contract. The principles are all similar. We built 7-8 years ago, using the then current MB contract form. After talking to a few builders, I saw some who used the MB form, and some their own form. Without naming names, some franchise builders tried to suggest forms that were ludicrously biased in their favour. In one case even their so called project manager couldn’t explain how some clauses would work in practice (hence the BS about ‘don’t worry, we never actually impose that requirement’. My reply was, in that case delete the clause. No, the boss won’t let us change anything in the contract. At that point of course you say goodbye.) Although the MB form is not wonderful, it’s by no means the worst. So we went with a builder who agreed to use a modified version. Although there are standard forms out there which are much better. The problem is that because they are so good, few if any builders want to use them. By the way, ‘adverse’ has the meaning ‘harmful or unfavourable’. I think Peter meant to say ‘not well versed’, which means inexperienced or lacking knowledge. Feel free to call me pedantic, lots of people have in the past.

Hi Chris C I appreciate Peter didn’t mean “technically adverse” but like you understood what he was trying to say hence the quotation marks in my response. Being pedantic is just fine and absolutely necessary if in a dispute situation.

Hi Thats correct in I was meant to say ‘not well versed’. Its been along time since school